Hydroquinone (2%) is the best skin lightening agent and most effective for hyperpigmentation. Excuse the wall of text!! ._12xlue8dQ1odPw1J81FIGQ{display:inline-block;vertical-align:middle} This resurfacing … (Yes we’re the first, original painless medium depth chemical peel! More Molecules: Niacinamide 10% + Zinc 1%, Alpha Arbutin 2% + HA, Caffeine Solution 5% + EGCG. Side note: this is not my normal skin tone—I look a little darker/red bc of the solution. Just kidding, but really, I am the VI peels biggest fan!!! Natural Moisturizing Factors + HA; I love this moisturizer and I’ve never before found a moisturizer that I like using everyday. While some my talk like this is a dupe for Drunk Elephant's baby facial, it is not. "BHAs, like salicylic and beta hydroxy, are best for issues like … I have rosacea though, I wonder if this would bypass that nastiness and maybe bring some help for melasma. I'm overwhelmed and have just begun dissecting all of their complex products. Thank you 😊. I've been off curology for a while and using tretinoin .025 instead but I'm seriously thinking of going back just for the work it did shrinking my PIH. skinceuticals.com. A bit of a cult-classic, this body lotion boasting alpha … This article on one of the HG sites, acne.org, lists a number of options including azelaic acid, retinoids, and niacinamide, which are available via The Ordinary. It feels good when I apply it, I feel like the times I’ve used it I’ve seen an improvement on my skin tone, not necessarily evening it out, but it looks more glowy. I'm hoping to finish the bottle and I'll determine if it's worth repurchasing. I want to majorly tackle hyperpigmentation issues, blemishes/acne, dark spots from acne, and oil control. I use Neutrogena's 110 SPF sunscreen. @keyframes ibDwUVR1CAykturOgqOS5{0%{transform:rotate(0deg)}to{transform:rotate(1turn)}}._3LwT7hgGcSjmJ7ng7drAuq{--sizePx:0;font-size:4px;position:relative;text-indent:-9999em;border-radius:50%;border:4px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyTextAlpha20);border-left-color:var(--newCommunityTheme-body);transform:translateZ(0);animation:ibDwUVR1CAykturOgqOS5 1.1s linear infinite}._3LwT7hgGcSjmJ7ng7drAuq,._3LwT7hgGcSjmJ7ng7drAuq:after{width:var(--sizePx);height:var(--sizePx)}._3LwT7hgGcSjmJ7ng7drAuq:after{border-radius:50%}._3LwT7hgGcSjmJ7ng7drAuq._2qr28EeyPvBWAsPKl-KuWN{margin:0 auto} I've been using Skinlex 2% Alpha Arbutin serum for over a month now and haven't seen much difference in my skin. There is no pain or discomfort. Now I’m seeing you on Reddit. I got my first two this summer..you can see pics on my profile. Looking for a Kojic Acid serum/gel to try as well but no luck so far. Arbutin 2%: Panned a bottle, made no difference in my PIH. I personally use CeraVe PM facial moisturizing lotion which has niacinamide in it. More posts from the 30PlusSkinCare community. I’m also a WoC (NC42-NC44 in Mac foundation for reference) battling hyperpigemantion and texture issues in my skin. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. And do you ship to Canada/Australia? 20-25% TCA face peels run about $450-600 each. Retinoid 2%: Panned a bottle, made no difference in my PIH. I’m a fair toned, 32 year old woman for reference 😊. .s5ap8yh1b4ZfwxvHizW3f{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText);padding-top:5px}.s5ap8yh1b4ZfwxvHizW3f._19JhaP1slDQqu2XgT3vVS0{color:#ea0027} ._9ZuQyDXhFth1qKJF4KNm8{padding:12px 12px 40px}._2iNJX36LR2tMHx_unzEkVM,._1JmnMJclrTwTPpAip5U_Hm{font-size:16px;font-weight:500;line-height:20px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText);margin-bottom:40px;padding-top:4px}._306gA2lxjCHX44ssikUp3O{margin-bottom:32px}._1Omf6afKRpv3RKNCWjIyJ4{font-size:18px;font-weight:500;line-height:22px;border-bottom:2px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-line);color:var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText);margin-bottom:8px;padding-bottom:8px}._2Ss7VGMX-UPKt9NhFRtgTz{margin-bottom:24px}._3vWu4F9B4X4Yc-Gm86-FMP{border-bottom:1px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-line);margin-bottom:8px;padding-bottom:2px}._3vWu4F9B4X4Yc-Gm86-FMP:last-of-type{border-bottom-width:0}._2qAEe8HGjtHsuKsHqNCa9u{font-size:14px;font-weight:500;line-height:18px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText);padding-bottom:8px;padding-top:8px}.c5RWd-O3CYE-XSLdTyjtI{padding:8px 0}._3whORKuQps-WQpSceAyHuF{font-size:12px;font-weight:400;line-height:16px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon);margin-bottom:8px}._1Qk-ka6_CJz1fU3OUfeznu{margin-bottom:8px}._3ds8Wk2l32hr3hLddQshhG{font-weight:500}._1h0r6vtgOzgWtu-GNBO6Yb,._3ds8Wk2l32hr3hLddQshhG{font-size:12px;line-height:16px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)}._1h0r6vtgOzgWtu-GNBO6Yb{font-weight:400}.horIoLCod23xkzt7MmTpC{font-size:12px;font-weight:400;line-height:16px;color:#ea0027}._33Iw1wpNZ-uhC05tWsB9xi{margin-top:24px}._2M7LQbQxH40ingJ9h9RslL{font-size:12px;font-weight:400;line-height:16px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon);margin-bottom:8px} I’m getting this done. Lightening discoloration and pih is more difficult in dark brown skin tones I guess. ._1PeZajQI0Wm8P3B45yshR{fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)}._1PeZajQI0Wm8P3B45yshR._3axV0unm-cpsxoKWYwKh2x{fill:#ea0027} Engelmen says that a peel that contains BHAs, like this 10-minute berry-hued option, is ideal for treating acne. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. This could be because I’m spending more time staring at my face. Ok folks, here I am third VI peel, day3. Ameliorate Transforming Body Lotion. I've also used the alpha arbutin for a few weeks and have noticed even more improvement with that. Hello! Check out our picks of the best chemical peels, with options for all skin types and issues. So use code KTLA for 30% off our skin care products on our website. .LalRrQILNjt65y-p-QlWH{fill:var(--newRedditTheme-actionIcon);height:18px;width:18px}.LalRrQILNjt65y-p-QlWH rect{stroke:var(--newRedditTheme-metaText)}._3J2-xIxxxP9ISzeLWCOUVc{height:18px}.FyLpt0kIWG1bTDWZ8HIL1{margin-top:4px}._2ntJEAiwKXBGvxrJiqxx_2,._1SqBC7PQ5dMOdF0MhPIkA8{height:24px;vertical-align:middle;width:24px}._1SqBC7PQ5dMOdF0MhPIkA8{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-ms-flex-direction:row;flex-direction:row;-ms-flex-pack:center;justify-content:center} Photo Credits: Reddit As one of the hardest skin care conditions to treat, hyperpigmentation can oftentimes require in-office treatments like lasers or microneedling to … Jessner Peel is a superficial peel used to treat hyperpigmentation, acne spots, age spots, melasma, freckles, discoloration or darkening of the skin. I want to try those products for my PIH but if you say it didn't work I may not try it. Expensive overall but the mixture they gave me did so much to shrink the awful PIH I had. I use the granactive retinoid and I love it. How long will it take to see results? For reference I’m 31/Hispanic/combination skin. She told me about the history of the VI peels and how it became about. ._1EPynDYoibfs7nDggdH7Gq{margin-bottom:8px;position:relative}._1EPynDYoibfs7nDggdH7Gq._3-0c12FCnHoLz34dQVveax{max-height:63px;overflow:hidden}._1zPvgKHteTOub9dKkvrOl4{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:21px;font-weight:400;word-wrap:break-word}._1dp4_svQVkkuV143AIEKsf{-ms-flex-align:baseline;align-items:baseline;background-color:var(--newCommunityTheme-body);bottom:-2px;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-flow:row nowrap;flex-flow:row nowrap;padding-left:2px;position:absolute;right:-8px}._5VBcBVybCfosCzMJlXzC3{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:400;line-height:21px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText)}._3YNtuKT-Is6XUBvdluRTyI{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText);fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText);border:0;padding:0 8px}._3YNtuKT-Is6XUBvdluRTyI:active,._3YNtuKT-Is6XUBvdluRTyI:hover{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaTextShaded80);fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaTextShaded80)}._3YNtuKT-Is6XUBvdluRTyI:disabled,._3YNtuKT-Is6XUBvdluRTyI[data-disabled],._3YNtuKT-Is6XUBvdluRTyI[disabled]{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaTextAlpha50);cursor:not-allowed;fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaTextAlpha50)}._2ZTVnRPqdyKo1dA7Q7i4EL{transition:all .1s linear 0s}.k51Bu_pyEfHQF6AAhaKfS{transition:none}._2qi_L6gKnhyJ0ZxPmwbDFK{transition:all .1s linear 0s;display:block;background-color:var(--newCommunityTheme-field);border-radius:4px;padding:8px;margin-bottom:12px;margin-top:8px;border:1px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-canvas);cursor:pointer}._2qi_L6gKnhyJ0ZxPmwbDFK:focus{outline:none}._2qi_L6gKnhyJ0ZxPmwbDFK:hover{border:1px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-button)}._2qi_L6gKnhyJ0ZxPmwbDFK._3GG6tRGPPJiejLqt2AZfh4{transition:none;border:1px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-button)}.IzSmZckfdQu5YP9qCsdWO{cursor:pointer;transition:all .1s linear 0s}.IzSmZckfdQu5YP9qCsdWO ._1EPynDYoibfs7nDggdH7Gq{border:1px solid transparent;border-radius:4px;transition:all .1s linear 0s}.IzSmZckfdQu5YP9qCsdWO:hover ._1EPynDYoibfs7nDggdH7Gq{border:1px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-button);padding:4px}._1YvJWALkJ8iKZxUU53TeNO{font-size:12px;font-weight:700;line-height:16px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-button)}._3adDzm8E3q64yWtEcs5XU7{display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex}._3adDzm8E3q64yWtEcs5XU7 ._3jyKpErOrdUDMh0RFq5V6f{-ms-flex:100%;flex:100%}._3adDzm8E3q64yWtEcs5XU7 .dqhlvajEe-qyxij0jNsi0{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-button)}._3adDzm8E3q64yWtEcs5XU7 ._12nHw-MGuz_r1dQx5YPM2v,._3adDzm8E3q64yWtEcs5XU7 .dqhlvajEe-qyxij0jNsi0{font-size:12px;font-weight:700;line-height:16px;cursor:pointer;-ms-flex-item-align:end;align-self:flex-end;-webkit-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none}._3adDzm8E3q64yWtEcs5XU7 ._12nHw-MGuz_r1dQx5YPM2v{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-button);margin-right:8px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-errorText)}._3zTJ9t4vNwm1NrIaZ35NS6{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:21px;font-weight:400;word-wrap:break-word;width:100%;padding:0;border:none;background-color:transparent;resize:none;outline:none;cursor:pointer;color:var(--newRedditTheme-bodyText)}._2JIiUcAdp9rIhjEbIjcuQ-{resize:none;cursor:auto}._2I2LpaEhGCzQ9inJMwliNO,._42Nh7O6pFcqnA6OZd3bOK{display:inline-block;margin-left:4px;vertical-align:middle}._42Nh7O6pFcqnA6OZd3bOK{fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-button);color:var(--newCommunityTheme-button);height:16px;width:16px;margin-bottom:2px} This is so cool!! Can I work for you guys? I just wanted to pop in and say how happy this makes me. No change. Here are some of TO products I’ve tried and my experience with them. 🌟, I just finished my VI precision plus peel! I’m almost out. Paula's Choice … Where is this available? I didn't wanna get anything wrong/wanted to be as thorough as possible! Great For Acne: Paula's Choice Skin Perfecting 2% BHA Liquid Exfoliant. You can’t tell in this pic (I do have a before pic somewhere I’ll have to find it) but I have suffered from acne, hyperpigmentation, and recently melasma on my forehead. I'm new to this sub and I've lurked for a while but have been lurking even more now that i've just got into the Ordinary. [read not a “light flake barely do anything” and not a “holy hell this is intense”]), Because we’re the original we’ve had a lot of time to perfect our protocol, formula, and sources. This go round I got the VI precision plus and clarifying peel. I'd say that if you're not sure about some of the ingredients in a product you're looking at, make sure to use it as a spot treatment only and maybe do progress photos. They both help to reduce the … By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Niacinamide 10%: Currently using, don't see much of a difference with my PIH but I also wasn't expecting that. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Cleanest Ingredients. A proprietary blend of salicylic acid, lactic … I'm not able to search a practitioner - keep getting a message "vipeel.com says Unable to find address." .ehsOqYO6dxn_Pf9Dzwu37{margin-top:0;overflow:visible}._2pFdCpgBihIaYh9DSMWBIu{height:24px}._2pFdCpgBihIaYh9DSMWBIu.uMPgOFYlCc5uvpa2Lbteu{border-radius:2px}._2pFdCpgBihIaYh9DSMWBIu.uMPgOFYlCc5uvpa2Lbteu:focus,._2pFdCpgBihIaYh9DSMWBIu.uMPgOFYlCc5uvpa2Lbteu:hover{background-color:var(--newRedditTheme-navIconFaded10);outline:none}._38GxRFSqSC-Z2VLi5Xzkjy{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)}._2DO72U0b_6CUw3msKGrnnT{border-top:none;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText);cursor:pointer;padding:8px 16px 8px 8px;text-transform:none}._2DO72U0b_6CUw3msKGrnnT:hover{background-color:#0079d3;border:none;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-body);fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-body)} My aesthetician has been wanting to do this peel on me but haven’t been able to afford it. Edit: woops... the code starts working Thursday 11/19 to Monday 11/22 😬. My skin is already looking so much better, minus the intense flaking. Is there any other page with a locator? Hey all! I have discoloration and pih I've struggled with for quite a while. ASDM Beverly Hills Lactic Acid Peel 60% 1oz 30ml Medical Strength Treatment Hyperpigmentation, Age Spots, Melasma, Brighten Dull Skin Discoloration Uneven … I'll post my routine below: Note: I have dark skin (think Lupita Nyong'o but darker) incredibly oil skin and I'm prone to acne. Lactic Acid 50% Gel Peel by … Also a woc, and I’ve used up bottles of the vitamin C and almost a full bottle of the alpha arbutin with no real results. Vitamin C: Vitamin C Suspension 23% + HA Spheres 2%, Direct Acids: Salicylic Acid 2% Solution, AHA 30% + BHA 2%. If peels are used, a light BHA peel like salicylic acid is best for black skin, because it is mild and anti-inflammatory, meaning it will lessen any post inflammatory … TCA peels vary alot according to location and strength. I've never tried a retinoid but hear great things! End of discussion. Salicylic acid is used primarily to treat acne and also helps to cure melasma, … Chemical peels are the " intense " version of daily chemical exfoliation. I’ll see if I can find it. .FIYolDqalszTnjjNfThfT{max-width:256px;white-space:normal;text-align:center} My (doctor) dad invented the VIPeel some 20 years ago because my older sister suffered from acne. It removes the outer layer of the skin … It might be in my head but it’s one of those things that you feel like you can see the results after application. They say it's because the skin doesn't have to peel in order to shed, that it can happen over time (i don't know about that...). Peels and lasers—they’re the tried-and-true, gold-standard procedures for treating hyperpigmentation, dullness, rough texture, and acne. ._2cHgYGbfV9EZMSThqLt2tx{margin-bottom:16px;border-radius:4px}._3Q7WCNdCi77r0_CKPoDSFY{width:75%;height:24px}._2wgLWvNKnhoJX3DUVT_3F-,._3Q7WCNdCi77r0_CKPoDSFY{background:var(--newCommunityTheme-field);background-size:200%;margin-bottom:16px;border-radius:4px}._2wgLWvNKnhoJX3DUVT_3F-{width:100%;height:46px} Thank you for sharing! https://www.acne.org/hyperpigmentation.html._3bX7W3J0lU78fp7cayvNxx{max-width:208px;text-align:center} There were no painless chemical peels on the market at this time and so he broke the mold and created his own. Did help my blemishes and made my skin texture nicer. None of the chemical peels at my derm's office have made me peel this way. /*# sourceMappingURL=https://www.redditstatic.com/desktop2x/chunkCSS/IdCard.80f3288bcfb1334f33fa.css.map*/._2JU2WQDzn5pAlpxqChbxr7{height:16px;margin-right:8px;width:16px}._3E45je-29yDjfFqFcLCXyH{margin-top:16px}._13YtS_rCnVZG1ns2xaCalg{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:400;line-height:18px;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex}._1m5fPZN4q3vKVg9SgU43u2{margin-top:12px}._17A-IdW3j1_fI_pN-8tMV-{display:inline-block;margin-bottom:8px;margin-right:5px}._5MIPBF8A9vXwwXFumpGqY{border-radius:20px;font-size:12px;font-weight:500;letter-spacing:0;line-height:16px;padding:3px 10px;text-transform:none}._5MIPBF8A9vXwwXFumpGqY:focus{outline:unset} Holy shit this is amazing!! Okay, so this exfoliating serum isn't a … And I'm really trying to stay away from hydroquinone. Chemical peels address hyperpigmentation by intensely exfoliating dead skin cells that are holding on to excess melanin. 30-35% TCA peels … Choosing the best acid body peel for your skin issues. With DE, there's a clarity that comes to my skin after using it. (Buyer beware of these so called “perfect” peels). I haven darker skin and found that niacinamide and azelaic acid helped with hyperpgimentation the past 3-4 months. ._3gbb_EMFXxTYrxDZ2kusIp{margin-bottom:24px;text-transform:uppercase;width:100%}._3gbb_EMFXxTYrxDZ2kusIp:last-child{margin-bottom:10px} It might be licorice root and some others? Also a WOC, Fitzpatrick 5 on the scale. Do you guys ship to the UK? Face acids. I also use the Herbivore Blue Tansy mask for the AHA/BHA exfoliating benefits. Ahhh this is great! So far I've been interested in the following TO products: Retinoids: Granactive Retinoid 2% Emulsion or Retinol 0.5% in Squalane. Today, there are a number of facial peels offering up potent ingredients set to help your skin even and … Just like a facial chemical peel, a body acid peel should be carefully selected based on a wide variety of factors. Jessner peel. I’ve also tried everything for melasma — including lasers. Both Retin-A and Differin have been great for my acne/hyperpigmentation. Drop any questions below...I’m such a fan of this peel. And your pupper is SO CUTE. With TO, my skin is fine but not luminous like DE or SR make it. I hope my input can be of some help. It’s supposed to help with signs of aging. ._1x9diBHPBP-hL1JiwUwJ5J{font-size:14px;font-weight:500;line-height:18px;color:#ff585b;padding-left:3px;padding-right:24px}._2B0OHMLKb9TXNdd9g5Ere-,._1xKxnscCn2PjBiXhorZef4{height:16px;padding-right:4px;vertical-align:top}._1LLqoNXrOsaIkMtOuTBmO5{height:20px;padding-right:8px;vertical-align:bottom}.isInIcons2020 .icon._1LLqoNXrOsaIkMtOuTBmO5{vertical-align:middle}.QB2Yrr8uihZVRhvwrKuMS{height:18px;padding-right:8px;vertical-align:top}._3w_KK8BUvCMkCPWZVsZQn0{font-size:14px;font-weight:500;line-height:18px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)}._3w_KK8BUvCMkCPWZVsZQn0 ._1LLqoNXrOsaIkMtOuTBmO5,._3w_KK8BUvCMkCPWZVsZQn0 ._2B0OHMLKb9TXNdd9g5Ere-,._3w_KK8BUvCMkCPWZVsZQn0 ._1xKxnscCn2PjBiXhorZef4,._3w_KK8BUvCMkCPWZVsZQn0 .QB2Yrr8uihZVRhvwrKuMS{fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)} If you have any questions I might be able to answer some now. The VI peel is actually one of the more gentler peels, surprisingly. Best Overall: Dr. Dennis Gross Alpha Beta Universal Daily Peel Buy on Amazon Buy … Chemical … Buffet: feels good on my skin, not sure if it’s actually doing anything. Stronger AHAs, like chemical peels, are riskier than daily leave-on products. I'm so glad to hear you're liking the results- you deserve it after the zfrufe of skin issues that many of us can empathise with! The problem is.. I wanna try it out but am not sure which to go for! Night 1 I use Stridex, then retinol, then the CeraVe lotion, and night 2 I use vitamin C and TO Resveratrol 3% + Ferulic Acid 3%. Also are you african american skin toned? Is a VIPeel something that can be used with tretinoin? Hey there! Light TCA peels such as 10-15% for the face will run about $250-350 each. ._2YJDRz5rCYQfu8YdgB_neb{overflow:hidden;position:relative}._2YJDRz5rCYQfu8YdgB_neb:before{background-image:url(https://www.redditstatic.com/desktop2x/img/reddit_pattern.png);content:"";filter:var(--newCommunityTheme-invertFilter);height:100%;position:absolute;width:100%}._37WD6iicVS6vGN0RomNTwh{padding:0 12px 12px;position:relative} But once it’s gone...beautiful skin. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Cleanser: Herbivore Bamboo Charcoal Detoxifying Soap Bar, Toner: Clean Habit Brisa Rosada Toner (A mix of: Witch Hazel, Aloe Juice, Rose Hydrosol, Organic Lavender Oil, Organic Tea Tree Oil, Leuicidal), Moisturizer: Moon Melt Whipped Body Butter (A mix of: Cocoa butter, coconut oil, shea butter, safflower oil, jasmine, ylang ylang, rose), Double cleanser: Clean Habit Dulce Abejita Honey Cleanser (A mix of: Raw honey, coconut oil, potassium hydroxide, palm kernel oil, olive oil, hemp oil, jojoba oil, lavender extract, tocopherol (Vitamin E), Exfoliator: Dermalogica Daily microfoliant. Your input would be awesome. Glytone Step-Up Boost Mini Peel This gentle peel is suitable for all skin types and ideal for acne prone skin. So as a WoC who also struggles with PIH, the best product I had that did the most work was my curology subscription. 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They are pretty clear that the purpose of this product is to help with blemishes and sebum (which it has, very well). Chemical peels are one of the solutions that give immediate results and we have chosen some of the best peels for hyperpigmentation curing. I am telling you...this peel is a miracle. I’d suggest going to a derm and getting a prescription retinoid or trying Differin. I loved the results! The general rule is that you’ll see results once your skin … New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the SkincareAddiction community, Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Do you mind me asking what your curology subscription was? Alpha Arbuthnot 2% + HA: I’ve only used this a couple of times so I can’t comment if it’s down anything. 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