Phase align them both in the x-vr. If you have a phase control on the subs you can still effect some kind of time alignment but it’ll be a little trial and error. So getting drivers working together with Impuls response measurements would not be the way to go for me. Time alignment series Why you should time align > Is it really necessary? I work with just a couple of other analyzers (Smaart/SIM3/SAT-live). Sorry for the Pink Stuff ;-) Also available at https://timobeckmangeluid.wordpress.com From about 2 min in to the screen capture i mess with different High and low pass filters and you can clearly see what those filters do to the IR. Bass "seemed" real late looking there. Still the analyzer is able to give you a time but it's in the area where it has the most data points: the upper range where the x-over is implemented and in that area phase will go horizontal. The musicians being in different places, left, right, forward or back. After reading a lot of Facebook posts about time alignment settings and after a couple of tech support calls last week, I decided I’d Google “how to set time alignment”. Another way would be to modify the IR trough a FIR filter if you do not mind more latency..... Small note: response on the system in the screen cap is sort of flat. Timing advance and time alignment timer 1. The No. Should raw speaker RTA measurements be taken post or pre 'Time/Distance' settings? I think you would get more constructive opinions if you did the following before submitting your graphs: Can you post your MDAT (zip it, rename it .txt, or use something like dropbox/onedrive/google drive. I think the phase approach makes a lot of sense, too bad the phase cannot be viewed real time in the RTA. The optimal alignment may also be used for summarizing a set of time series, since it allows to compute a more meaningful average between sequences which may exhibit time warping. Hi All, Just having a bit of trouble understanding time alignment with Active speakers using REW. This offset at the UE is necessary to ensure that the downlink and uplink subframes are synchronised at the eNodeB. REW program for the HRTEM image simulation, the alignment and the focus variation image reconstruction Something about needing a loop back feature and can't be done with usb. cheers.. The audio measurement and analysis features of REW help you optimise the acoustics of your listening room, studio or home theater and find the best locations for your speakers, subwoofers and listening position. A few people say the same thing. It seems like it should be easy but I can't suss it out. Time-alignment is no different, and believe it or not, the vast majority of time-alignment ‘problems’ in a car are the result of mechanical ‘problems’ in one’s installation, including inadequate speaker mounting techniques and locations, distances between speaker pairs in … the idea is to have the output from each speaker/sub, arrive at your ears at the same time, becuse some speakers /sub are different distances from you, the time alignment feature can adjust the timing of each speaker. Arendal 1723 dual Sub1S vs SVS Dual SB3000 any thoughts? Do that for all of your bands and you have a good first approximation of delays between cabinets. Each speaker will be measured for its time delay relative to this timing reference. Dan ini lah hasilnya... TADAAAAAA Warna hijau tua adalah response sistem kita setelah dihitung settingan EQ nya oleh REW. APL TDA is nice for time aligning too…. I still have yet to give HI a whirl. Since you want to sum both drivers together to get a full range system you would need to synchronize your analyzer on 1 of the 2 drivers (preferably the high driver = more data for the analyzer to work with) and keep the time set at that point. I determined that my mains and subs at 2.8m distance needed about 7.2m to align the impulse peak when measured with one or the other, because of the delay the SMS-1 adds. I am using both the Time Align mixed with a little cut in channel gain to do level matching but wondering if this common practice or if i should set all 'Time/Distance' at Zero and then start the level matching via gain cutting. It seems the general wisdom is to align the impulse. This gives you both halves of the crossed over signal. I read everywhere that you can't use USB microphones to do time alignment with REW. I still have yet to give HI a whirl. Time alignment. To find out the difference in acoustic distance of the two drivers (mid and tweeter) we can do this: We place the microphone at 1 meter distance and record amplitude and minimum phase for both drivers and finally the summed response (impedance data not needed here). HolmImpulse for time alignment, REW for phase. Once the ancillary speakers are installed and tuned to your PA, you’ll need to time-align them with the main speakers so that sound coming from the delayed speakers arrives at the audience in time with the sound from the main speakers. Waktu proses cukup singkat, ngga sampai 1 menit. Getting my head around REW and mainly at an experimental stage trying to understand sub to main integration, i kind of understand the basics of this image but at 70hz why do the 3 lines become separated? JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The easiest way to do this is to measure your mains without the sub (so three measurements, L, C, R) and then measure the sub on a mains channel without that main. HolmImpulse for time alignment, REW for phase. If i implement a High-pass filter on a high driver there's a lot of data left for the analyzer to work with but as soon as i implement a low-pass filter on a low driver the data will be diminished substantially (from a linear point of view) and by implementing a low-pass filter the timing of frequencies will spread over time...(more group delay so the phase trace of the low driver will move down under a steeper angle). By using the loopback timing reference feature of REW (the loopback cable left in the second channel of your sound card), REW subtracts all the sound card and computer latencies and gives you the actual driver to microphone delay, ASSUMING your signal path … Find out more about sending content to Dropbox . This then allows REW to give really accurate impulse time plots. This can be used to measure time delay between speakers so you can time-align them. Personally I prefer to use Holm Impulse (. You can calculate these steps by deviding sample rate/FFT size=48000/128=375Hz, If i set Smaart to a 32K FFT size you'll get 48000/32768=1.46Hz. Phase aligning both can be done by using delay or my preferred way All-pass filters. Time alignment can also be looked at when listening to a musical group or an orchestra. There is a little time difference between left and right speakers -- but both are more or less equidistant from the 'center-positioned' sub. The channel was started really just to make this one video but I decided to cover everything. you need to delay the speaker closest to you the most and others less, and the speaker farthest away has zero t.a. Conrad...I am using Asio on windows for rew, my version doesn't have the time alignment tool but if its straightforward enough to use then I'll download it soon.... You can measure them each by just turning each one off in turn. So measure 0-300Hz on the L channel but with the L disconnected. The tick marks the time the treble is received at the listening position relative to the bass. Starting a fresh thread on this Does anyone know how to measure the timing/delay of subs vs mains with REW? You are using an out of date browser. I do not work with REW or any analyzers mentioned in the above comments. at 3k, time = 1/3000 = 0.3 ms Delay = phase shift/180 x time for one cycle So the delay = phase shift / 180 x 1/frequency In this case, reversing the polarity at 3k is equivalent to 0.15 milliseconds. So 1/2 in linear means -6dB in logarithmic (20log(½)=-6dB, As soon as i implement a low-pass filter at 6kHz the data will be half of the data without the low-pass filter. Looking with this method, it doesn't. As soon as i implement a low-pass filter at 12kHz the data will be half of the data without the low-pass filter. Rew question re time aligning subs to mains.. Thread starter Brent2222; Start date Today at 1:10 PM; B. Brent2222 Novice Member. So at a 32K FFT size Smaart will have a frequency resolution in 1.46Hz steps from 1.46Hz up to 24kHz. I'm guessing it has something to do with the IR Windows option but can't see how you do it. You enter the distance you wish to shift the stage and the calculations below will give you approximate numbers so that your time alignment isn't off from your levels, otherwise causing you to lose the focus. The analyzer will not see data points below 375Hz and will only see multiples of 375Hz (so next points would be 750Hz/1125Hz/1500Hz and so on). It will help you get perfectly synchronized double-tracked recordings and significantly eliminate timing anomalies and phase issues from your mix on multi-mic'd drums, vocals and instruments. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Get the background here from Wikipedia. This is then used to set up time delays in a miniDSP plugin so the drivers are time-aligned. 1. Adjust the following: Left time delay ms; Right time delay ms; Left level by db This website uses the TMDb API but is not endorsed or certified by TMDb. Hi everyone, I wanted to share a new feature of REW/rePhase which makes combining the two pieces of software to make amplitude corrections in the frequency domain very easy. You must log in or register to reply here. So 1/8 in linear means -18dB in logarithmic (20log(1/8)=-18dB, As soon as i implement a low-pass filter at 1k5 the data will be half of the data without the low-pass filter. company number 03997482, registered in England and Wales. 1 Home Entertainment Tech Community & Resource. Also the IR get's time stretched and in linear view you see the level dropping. In this app note, we will describe how to measure acoustic time delay between drivers using just a UMIK-1 or UMIK-2 and Room EQ Wizard (REW). In fact, it looks 2ms early on the main system. Otherwise, the difference in arrival time between the mains and ancillary speakers will create sonic problems. Apparently there are a million different perspectives about this, what one can reasonably expect to achieve and how this actually works. Time aligning via impulse response is as you say - measure the delay from t=0 to when the impulse is recorded. I read someone on here saying that this is the simplest way to look into sub/mains integration, which is where I'm currently at.. Move stage inches to driver side or to passenger side. Measuring timing of sub(s) to mains with REW, Confused by REW and LFE channel - help appreciated. REW can use an acoustic timing reference when doing measurements. I followed your thread when exponential was setting his equipment up, this was how i did the timing reference, i'm not sure how to get page 3 of that thread up but is this in the right ball park? AVForums.com is owned and operated by M2N Limited, There are a few tricks you need to know such as locking the auto peak-detection when doing time alignment of multiple measurements. I simplified the EQ around the xo region a bit. Join the AVForums team live on Wednesdays at 7pm UK time. It's very powerful but doesn't have a 'non-expert' mode! REW v5 provides two new features very helpful in aligning the sub distance with the main speakers. To answer my own question REW can be configured with one channel for the mic/soundmeter and the other looped from out to in. In this post I'm just going to show the problem with the REW computed delay time, which is a very serious issue in my opinion. I would synchronize on the high driver/Mid-high's (no sub)  and after that start phase aligning all at the selected x-overs. If this is the first time you use this feature, you will be asked to authorise Cambridge Core to connect with your account. I just arbitrarily set the tick on the peak, Precision Time Align is a high precision, sub-sample delay that can slide a track forward or backward in time. REW is free room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software for room, loudspeaker and device responses. michael chua November 6, 2020 Articles, HIFI DRIVERS, Projects Delay, ER18RNX, MDT29, REW, Time Alignment Read more > Peerless GBS85N with Audiopur PLA114-6 Peerless GBS85N25PR03-04 with AudioPur PLA114-6 Active Bi-Amped The objective of this exercise is to see how well the Peerless GBS85 integrates with the AudioPur PLA114. It looks like you forgot to post a picture? So 1/16 in linear means -24dB in logarithmic (20log(1/16)=-24dB. Pressing find delay and entering ∆ delay time is just part of the job. If you set Smaart to a FFT size of 128 the frequency resolution of Smaart will be 375Hz steps. In the screen capture you can see the difference between the IR (lin view) on the High-pass and Low-pass filters implemented (x-vr @1K2). I have read much information and even a bunch of threads on the overall matter. There are a few tricks you need to know such as locking the auto peak-detection when doing time alignment of multiple measurements. Timing Advance and Time Alignment Timer Timing advance is a negative offset, at the UE, between the start of a received downlink subframe and a transmitted uplink subframe. I do not know how REW goes about FFT sizes but with Smaart you have a bunch of choices on FFT size. Powered by Xenforo, Hosted by Nimbus Hosting, Original design Critical Media Ltd. Shouldn't be affected by room modes and echo much either, as the first sound to reach the mic should be via the most direct route. Got a n00b question regarding measurements via REW. First work out the time for one full cycle Time = 1/frequency eg. It's about using what you've learned from the last four posts about time alignment in a straightforward process for tuning a car with a DSP. In short by implementing a Low-pass filter you'll reduce the number of data points for the analyzer to work with and the data will be time stretched (group delay on the driver + group delay from the low-pass filter). Copyright © 2000-2021 M2N Limited E. & O.E. Very interesting questions, I have been curious about this as well! Timing doesn't change when implementing different filter orders when implementing High-pass filter but the IR moves to a different time when implementing a Low-pass filter. I found a different way of doing the time alignment using the summed response, but more about that in a future post. Anyway, REW akan melakukan kalibrasi secara otomatis berdasarkan hasil pengukuran tanpa EQ dan target yang ingin dicapai. Since v5.17 Beta 12, REW incorporates a rePhase EQ filters set, which makes it … So 1/4 in linear means -12dB in logarithmic (20log(1/4)=-12dB, As soon as i implement a low-pass filter at 3kHz the data will be half of the data without the low-pass filter. There is the Group Delay plot, that shows the relative or absolute arrival times of the impulse at various frequencies. This covers some new features of REW Room Eq Wizard in the beta verrsion with a new automatic time alignment feature. This time alignment is necessary as the HD Radio receiver transitions or blends from the analog to the digital signal when first tuned to a station or at the edge of the digital signal coverage where the receiver will blend back to the analog signal. So after helping dozens of guys align subs on a facebook page I moderate peer pressure has won and I made a video on it. The xo is already set at max and the phase/time delay knob is set with zero delay or at its initial setting. We will assume that you are already set up for measurements and know how to use REW. In the examples given, sound from the woofer arrives late by less than half a milli-second (1/2 a thousandth of a second) relative to the tweeter. It's very powerful but doesn't have a 'non-expert' mode! For time alignment? A typical home theater setup is shown in this diagram: As indicated in the diagram, the front left speaker is used as the acoustic timing reference. If this system with these settings would be used in a live situation you would probably need to temper the mid-highs a bit if pushed to a 100dBa or more.....(something to do with our ears perceiving this as kind of harsh sounding MH's) ;-), The sound will be as good as the band play's, http://www.holmacoustics.com/holmimpulse.php, https://timobeckmangeluid.wordpress.com/2016/10/20/filters-and-stuff/. Since a FFT analyzer is a linear device presenting data in a Logarithmic fashion you could say that all of those data point sum up to the value of 1 in a (live) IR measurement. Here's the REW sub alignment walk through for those that may be interested. After that get the phase angles on both drivers to match in there x-over range: i.e. I do not trust the Delay times computed by the Room EQ Wizard (REW) program for the subwoofer output.

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